tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24917443.post8830236504607622822..comments2023-05-07T02:34:30.801-07:00Comments on One Quaker Take: Christian, Not Christo-CentricTmothy Travishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02788311873771605510noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24917443.post-80987361775127432152012-07-30T11:42:40.799-07:002012-07-30T11:42:40.799-07:00I enjoyed this post. For the last few years, I...I enjoyed this post. For the last few years, I've been identifying myself as simply "Quaker" rather than Christian because I don't want to be seen as someone with evangelical beliefs. Then I'm asked about quakerism and then I can explain that there are Quakers who have strayed from the original. I hope you don't mind I'm linking to this post.Cheriehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06661705838389866476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24917443.post-34431161499818270102012-07-28T10:38:16.116-07:002012-07-28T10:38:16.116-07:00Did I forget to give the link? I think so. Here it...Did I forget to give the link? I think so. Here it is:<br /><br />http://lettersfromthestreet.wordpress.com/2011/11/22/why-i-call-myself-a-christian/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24917443.post-12611569726125895722012-07-28T10:33:48.203-07:002012-07-28T10:33:48.203-07:00Thanks, Timothy, for pointing to this valuable dis...Thanks, Timothy, for pointing to this valuable distinction. As you say, certain Protestant notions found their way into Quakerism, and I am sometimes amazed to find even Conservative Friends who are more evangelical in their Christianity than they realize. All because we don't call things by their right names.<br /><br />I wonder if you would be interested in my essay "Why I Call Myself a Christian"? I approach some of the same issues from a different direction. I find myself feeling a need to expand further on each of the points in this essay, but it is not without merit. I'd be interested in your comments.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24917443.post-76698088934133203572012-07-28T08:50:26.840-07:002012-07-28T08:50:26.840-07:00Tim, I'd suggest that within Protestant theolo...Tim, I'd suggest that within Protestant theology, "christo-centric" doesn't mean what you say it does. For example, John Howard Yoder, noted Mennonite pacifist theologian, distinguished his ethical pacifist views from the mainline just war view by saying his ethic was "christocentric" whereas the Just War theory was actually pagan in origin. In other words, Christo-centric denotes an even more specific focus on Jesus's teachings versus the "sacrificial atonement" theology of mainstream Christianity. This atonement theology makes use of social norms that make Christ's sacrifice into a transaction or debt-payment, rather than a victory over evil.<br /><br />However, most non-Christian Quakers are ignorant of this distinction. So, their usage of "christo-centric" is more about contrasting your Christianity from that of the mainstream Christian world.leftistquakerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10452322863147639718noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24917443.post-83444674288227664572012-07-27T12:21:13.324-07:002012-07-27T12:21:13.324-07:00This is very interesting to me. My own use of the...This is very interesting to me. My own use of the term Christocentric comes out of an interfaith perspective and a background in post-Christian research. In that context, "Christocentric" is akin to "Eurocentric". Just as a European might not be Eurocentric, neither is a Christian necessarily christocentric. Within this context, christocentrism is not indicative merely of centrality of Christ in one's theology or practice, but also in the belief that all other beliefs are to be understood relative to Christianity. This is particularly problematic in interfaith settings, as one can imagine. So this is not a word that has happy feelings attached to it for me. If I heard the word within a Quaker setting, I would have immediately assumed a level of hostility or resentment directed against the Christians in the room which may or may not be justified given that people often know very little about each other and make grand assumptions about others' words and meanings. I think your approach to engaging people in conversation about what we mean by the word "Christian" is important.Hysteryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02044678910937934731noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24917443.post-2224791029087099612012-07-26T17:09:36.331-07:002012-07-26T17:09:36.331-07:00Hello, Leftist Quaker
Why not just Christian? Be...Hello, Leftist Quaker<br /><br />Why not just Christian? Because it invites people to paint others with broad brushes. I don't want to be defined by whatever take someone has on such a non-specific label. Christian needs an adjective to dispel the vagueness and ambiguity it carries around.<br /><br />People should be treated as what they are rather than what people project onto them.<br /><br />Listening to atheists and most non-Christians I encounter (even in the Society of Friends) I get the impression that every Christian is a "fundamentalist" Protestant. I am tired of that. Asking not to be called Christo-centric (or an Evangelical) at least starts a conversation.<br /><br />(let me stick in here that I don't care if other people are Christo-centric or Evangelical--I just don't want to be categorized as such, myself.)<br /><br />It's why anymore if asked whether I am a Christian I ask what is meant by "Christian." When I get an answer I can almost always say "I'm not that," and a conversation can begin.<br /><br />I like that. But, then, I am the only person I know who is glad to see Jehova's Witnesses at my front door.Tmothy Travishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02788311873771605510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24917443.post-45507721348016408592012-07-26T10:22:42.778-07:002012-07-26T10:22:42.778-07:00Hi, David Christo-centric is actually an establis...Hi, David Christo-centric is actually an established and recognized label for a specific Christian hermeneutic that I define simplistically in the blog post. I am among those who do not value that (or any other, for that matter) approach to interpreting scripture. Friends who have adopted "Christo-centric" as a cool sounding way to differentiate Friends who are Christian from those who are not Christian don't understand, as I say, that they are redefining some of us without understanding they are creating a barrier to their understanding of who we are and lumping us with people whose faith and practice is radically different than ours. Christo-centric doesn't get beyond organized religion--it very specifically represents an approach of some domains of organized religion. "Christian Friend" accurately differentiates between the faith and practice of the original, traditional Christian Quaker faith and practice and that of Protestants--who use the Christo-centric hermeneutic-- within the Society. There are real differences and in not understanding what those are many Friends are unable to hear our testimony--they assume we are about getting people to affirm and validate Protestant notions.Tmothy Travishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02788311873771605510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24917443.post-5368648249097858602012-07-26T08:58:20.285-07:002012-07-26T08:58:20.285-07:00Hi Timothy,
Intriguing post, most of which I have...Hi Timothy,<br /><br />Intriguing post, most of which I have experienced in my own life in relationship to Christ and God.<br /><br />But aren't words so often slippery semantics?<br /><br />I would reverse your terms, saying that "Christian Friend" is the Protestant designation, while being "Christocentric" gets beyond organized religion and its abstract doctrines, and focuses on living in Christ now.<br /><br />Of course, easier said than done. We humans love to talk, more than walk:-)<br /><br />In the Light,<br />Daniel WilcoxDaniel Wilcoxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05178375087492786696noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24917443.post-11033810189354656252012-07-26T06:28:27.229-07:002012-07-26T06:28:27.229-07:00I have a different take on the distinction as a fo...I have a different take on the distinction as a former Christian. Every member of any church can be generically called a Christian. Within "liberal" Quakerdom, it's meant to identify Christians as a subset of a diverse community. Why not simply "Christian"? In part it is aimed at expressing the sense of non-Christian liberal Friends that the Christians among us are different from the wider genre. It is therefore somewhat of a toothless usage, though it expresses a discomfort with generic Christianity.leftistquakerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10452322863147639718noreply@blogger.com